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11/21/2011

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Lameen

ʕámma < Arabic ʕammāl (also used in Siwi.)

ʕáṣr = afternoon prayer in Arabic too, actually.

I assume -a is related to Arabic somehow?: could reflect 3msh -hu, which goes to -a in some dialects. Also used with dəffər here though.

šummán etc.: yeah, "they" is presumably the people of the house. I'm surprised it's not feminine plural, actually.

baʕád: "after", not "later".

nək lukán wa ammudán də́ffər-i a-iččí-t afíw, maʕádč a-mmudáx s-ḥíddan: If he who prays behind me were eaten by fire, I would no longer lead anyone in prayer.

maʕádč is Arabic mā-ʕād-š. In my dialect this would be "not yet", but I think in Libya this would be "no longer"; perhaps Adam can comment?

In Arabic, ṣallī bi- is "lead in prayer". I assume this is a calque, though Paradisi translates it as "pray for".

ḥiddan is of course Arabic 'aħad-an "anyone" - with tanwīn! My own dialect has šayən for "nothing", so the survival of tanwīn in this context is not unprecedented, but it is interesting.

yəxammə́m: from Arabic xammana.

Undú ušiġd-ká, a-nmḥásəb nək ídd-əs yom əlqiyáma
If I don't come, we will be held accountable, I and him, on the Day of Judgement. The m- must be a passive formation here.

ḥakkán-dík 'they have told me': the geminate suggests rather "they used to tell me" (imperfective.)

kato

The Ar. dialects which influenced Awjili are getting more interesting...

-a of dít-a could be as Lameen suggests 3.m.sg. -a (-u or -hu etc. in other dialects), as ELA has -a, e.g. ELA gǝdem-a "in front of him".

Interesting that your dialect has maʕádč for 'not yet', Lameen. Here, it'd be "no more, no longer", and is placed before the vb as in ELA.

Some studies of Cyrenaican bedouin by Mitchell noted a few tanwīns here and there, but mostly in proverbs and idiomatic expression, not such much in free speech, if I recall correctly.

tăláta marrát : this must be Awjili not having /th/, rather than the loaning dialect (which I'd expect to have preserved /th/) ?

Lameen

Also, lə́wwəl 'first': in Siwi this means "once, formerly" as well as "first", which would work here.

tăláta marrát: since Awjili doesn't have /θ/, it's hard to say one way or the other what the loaning dialect's phonology was like, but since Egyptian Arabic makes θ > t, it's not impossible that the relevant q-dialect did too.

The point of the story is the idea that God has granted Sidi Hamed the privilege that anyone whom he's led in prayer will be spared the Fire (of Hell) - even a piece of meat he's "led in prayer" can't be burned. On top of that, before leaving he agrees to intercede for any Awjili in trouble. Such ideas of intercession would now be seen as unacceptable by most Muslims (the last sentence suggests they were already starting to be seen that way), but they're fairly representative of the attitude people used to have towards saints in many regions.

PhoeniX

"ʕámma < Arabic ʕammāl (also used in Siwi.)"

Is this also used as a marker of progressive aspect in the Arabic dialects in the region? I tried looking for it in Owen's book on ELA without success.

Also, I find the derivation ʕammāl a bit striking, is this a classical formation? I can't seem to find something like it in Wehr. ʕamal 'work' is the closest I find.

I understand that it's an adverb in Siwi.

The similar form and use do seem to suggest that the origin of ʕámma is from ʕammāl, but it does make you wonder where the l ran off to in Aujila.

"maʕádč is Arabic mā-ʕād-š"
You're a life saver!

I'm still trying to understand how this word is built up though.

mā- is negative particle, and I assume is from Classical Arabic šaiʔ 'thing', but what is ʕād?

"Undú ušiġd-ká, a-nmḥásəb nək ídd-əs yom əlqiyáma
If I don't come, we will be held accountable, I and him, on the Day of Judgement. The m- must be a passive formation here."

Do you reckon that this is the m- of the passive participle in Arabic muḥāsab employed as a verb, or do you think this is the Berber prefix m- which somehow takes on a passive meaning through a middle meaning that it can express?

"ḥakkán-dík 'they have told me': the geminate suggests rather "they used to tell me" (imperfective.)"

Ah, of course. Good catch.

"Also, lə́wwəl 'first': in Siwi this means "once, formerly" as well as "first", which would work here."

It works if you translated it as "This is what I once heard from old people..."

But its position in between the noun and its adjective throws me off.

"Such ideas of intercession would now be seen as unacceptable by most Muslims"

This is considered unacceptable because you shouldn't be praying to saints but to Allah instead?

Glen Gordon

Phoenix: "mā- is negative particle, and I assume -š is from Classical Arabic šaiʔ 'thing', but what is ʕād?"

Google tells me that ʕād can mean 'again' on its own and has a durative connotation. "Not further thing"? Hmm, doesn't quite have a ring to it. Is it possible has a different etymology or is there a more natural English equivalent to explain the three morphemes? Adverbial marker maybe?

kato

Well, mā- and -š are simply the negative verbal circumfix that ELA uses, e.g. nimšī "I go" v. mā-nimšī-š "I don't go" and etc.

-š I believe must be derived from CA šay'. ‘ād is the 3.m.sg.pf. form of the verb, but only occurs in this sense in this (negative) form.

Lameen

ʕammāl: not a very Classical formation, but widely used in Arabic dialects; source of Syrian and oasis Egyptian ʕam-.

"This is considered unacceptable because you shouldn't be praying to saints but to Allah instead?" - basically.

Reflexes of m- often acquire a passive meaning in Berber.

kato

Something else: ir a-hlə́bən ašál 'until they would leave the village', the only Ar. antecedent of hlǝ́bǝn I can think of would be hǝrǝb 'to flee, escape, etc.' Even though r assimilates to l in many words, it also changes to l spontaneously. I don't think there would be any motivation for that change here, though, but it's a random possibility.

Muhned

Hello

could you tell us how did you knew that 'dabaš' is an Arabic word?

thank you

Muhned


Hello

hlə́bən/3pl.m in twillult (zuara dialect) mean's "to spread in a huge amount in a random way', and it is the origin of the word 'halba' in Libyan/Arabic dialect.

PhoeniX

Hey there,

Yes I knew that dabaš was an Arabic word, although perhaps not at the time of writing this blogpost, but in my dictionary in my book it is there.

As for hləbən, I always expect it was Arabic, but had never actually found it before! Thanks!

I think you're correct that it is related to the Libyan Arabic halba. The meaning 'to spread in a huge amount in a random way' does not quite work in this story as the person who is moving away seems to do it with quite a lot of directed determination.

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